Wireless communication

[bruno.choque]

Hello everyone, I was recently approached with an implementation for a Groov Rio, I have researched quite a few possibilities but I feel that I still do not have enough knowledge to confirm that this implementation is viable, if you could help me I would be grateful. Below I will describe the implementation (sorry if it’s a bit long):

Basically I have 2 different networks, each transmits 4 field signals, 3 AI and one DI along with a variable speed drive that controls an extraction pump, plus one of the networks handles Modbus communication and the other network handles Profibus communication. These networks are intended to be connected to 1 Groov RIO device (there is the possibility of using 2 RIOs, one for each network), however, I know that Profibus is not compatible with Groov so the use of a Profibus/Modbus is planned converter, this device is specifically:
“Anybus X-gateway – PROFIBUS Master – Modbus TCP Server”
Assuming that these connections are viable, the implementation seeks to transmit the data collected by the Groov RIO, through wireless communication, using a LoRaWAN Node device that would transfer the data to a LoRaWAN Gateway and this would communicate with a SCADA.

I attach a simple image to illustrate:

Apart from the question: Is implementation possible? The following doubts arise such as:

• Are Groov devices capable of receiving Modbus TCP or RTU? If so: Is it possible to use a Profibus/Modbus converter to receive information?

• Is a Groov device capable of receiving and transmitting field information through its RJ45 connectors? (Receives information from the Profibus/Modbus translator, Transmits information to the LoRaWAN Node). If so: In what protocol is the Groov device capable of transmitting information? Modbus TCP/RTU/ASCII?

• Is it possible to communicate both networks to the Groov device using an RJ45 switch?

• Is there any advantage in using a Groov Epic instead of a Groov RIO for this case?

• The LoRaWAN node device that I am considering using accepts an RS-232/RS-485 input, beyond the use of an RJ45 converter. Is there a other method by which I can transmit the information from the Groov device to it?

Some questions may be a little basic, but I want to be sure I don’t make mistakes. Any other contribution you can give me is more than welcome. Thanks you.

[Beno]

@bruno.choque

Are Groov devices capable of receiving Modbus TCP or RTU?

Yes. Both ModbusTCP and ModbusRTU. Both will use Node-RED.
ModbusTCP will use either of the Ethernet ports on the RIO. (See below - you seem confused about the two Ethernet ports on the RIO).
ModbusRTU will use an FTDI USB to Serial adaptor.

@bruno.choque

s it possible to use a Profibus/Modbus converter to receive information?

Yes. You will need to find a gateway that supports your Profibus device.

For ModbusTCP tips look here:

Troubleshooting Node-RED Modbus issues

Can you explain why you are switching nodes?: because it throws me error 2, which indicates that there is an error in the requested function or the slave device is incompatible with said function (16). If I am wrong I would appreciate information. Did the write not work on the original node when you changed the address?: no it didn’t work but this time as i reported earlier it says it doesn’t support feature 16 Did you get the error 2 after changing the address or was this before changing the …

For ModbusRTU tips look here:

Modbus serial with Node-RED

This provides a simple example of using the Rio to read Modbus data using serial Modbus RTU. OVERVIEW The Modbus device is connected to the Rio USB port through a RS232 to USB Adapter. A small NodeRed flow reads the Modbus registers. [image] USB The RS232 to USB Adapter is a Belkin Model: F5U409. The Rio is good at recognizing various USB adapters, so this specific model is probably not necessary. Here are a few others: RS232 and RS485 SERIAL ADAPTERS FOR RIO Gearmo Model: GM-FTDI-A12 Sa…

@bruno.choque

Is a Groov device capable of receiving and transmitting field information through its RJ45 connectors?

Yes. See below for more information on the RIO Ethernet.

@bruno.choque

In what protocol is the Groov device capable of transmitting information? Modbus TCP/RTU/ASCII?

All of them you list.
Node-RED is very flexible. The key is more about what the field hardware is sending and how. What electrical interface do they support?
For example, you mention ASCII, that’s most likely going to be serial data. So how is the field hardware sending the serial data? RS232? RS422? RS485? Or is it doing some sort of UDP strings over Ethernet? Node-RED and RIO can work with any of them, but you may need to use a USB to serial adaptor or find a serial to Ethernet adaptor. We leave that up to you to decide which.

@bruno.choque

Is it possible to communicate both networks to the Groov device using an RJ45 switch?

groov RIO is a two port switch. Both Ethernet ports have the same IP address.
So don’t think of ‘both’ when it comes to a RIO. You are probably going to end up just using a network switch and one of the RIO Ethernet ports.
If your diagram only had 2 Ethernet field devices, you would not need a network switch at all since you could use both ports on the RIO and be done.
But, since you have four field devices and the RIO, you are going to need a 6 or more port Ethernet switch.
It’s very important that you understand that all your field devices must be on the same subnet. If they are not, you will need to add a router.
Time to update that diagram you posted…

@bruno.choque

The LoRaWAN node device that I am considering using accepts an RS-232/RS-485 input, beyond the use of an RJ45 converter.

If you like, you can use its RS-232 port with a USB-to-Serial converter to connect to the RIO’s USB port. In this case, you would use the Node-RED ModbusRTU nodes.

Or, as you suggest, you can get an RS-232 to Ethernet adaptor and plug it into the little network you are creating and use Node-RED on the RIO to talk ModbusTCP to the LoRaWAN gateway.
Either will work fine. It just depends on what you want to work with. Serial USB or Serial Ethernet.

My thoughts? If there is no price difference, stick with Ethernet across the board. Don’t mix signal / data types if you don’t need to.

@bruno.choque

Is there a other method by which I can transmit the information from the Groov device to it?

It depends on the LoRaWAN gateway you end up selecting.
I hear that there are some LoRa to ModbusTCP gateways around.
I did not know that there were LoRa to serial gateways until you told me you have one just now.
Not sure there would be any benefit to using serial vs. Ethernet unless they are significantly cheaper.

Overall, it looks good.
Keep in mind that the RIO is a two-port switch, so you will need a small network switch in the diagram. (Tip, make a PoE switch and power the RIO with it so you don’t need a DC supply).
Once you have that sorted, it’s just a matter of making sure you understand each field device’s communication capabilities and how you plan to map those to the RIO.

Keep in mind that LoRaWAN is slow. You must set Node-RED to update only at a rate that your wireless network can support. (Which Node-RED can do, since you are in control of setting timing etc).

[bruno.choque]

Hi Beno, I really appreciate your response, I saw a bit of using an ftdi adapter and it looks great, but I see that most of these ideas are based on node-RED. Is there a possibility to implement all this using Codesys? I read something about some drivers or additional modules with extra cost, could you explain them to me? And if it’s not much, could you tell me which of these drivers or modules I would have to take into account for this implementation and their costs?

[Beno]

I think I got off on the Node-RED path due to your very original post wanting to make the HMI in Node-RED on the RIO… But it now sounds like you want a hybrid setup.
Codesys doing the Modbus comms and Node-RED doing the HMI?

HMI with Groov Rio and Epic

Hello, my question is a bit extensive since it covers the relationship between groov models and their use for an hmi, not to mention that I am somewhat new to the subject, so I apologize in advance if I ignore something basic and that is that I think that after Having read so much I’m a little confused. Let me explain, I was thinking of using a “groov Rio” to display something as simple as the level of some water tanks. The idea is to design a simple HMI that can be displayed on a 21" device or…

Hey @greichert What’s your thoughts on doing this via Codesys?

[bruno.choque]

I understand, I appreciate that you take into account my previous post, I know that they have dates very close to each other, in fact they are 2 different projects, I still have to confirm some details of the first one about the display device that they will use, I’ll update that post if I make any progress or any questions arise, by the way, thanks for your help.
On the other hand, this is a different project and if that possible i need to use codesys, so tha’s why my questions:

@bruno.choque

Hi Beno, I really appreciate your response, I saw a bit of using an ftdi adapter and it looks great, but I see that most of these ideas are based on node-RED. Is there a possibility to implement all this using Codesys? I read something about some drivers or additional modules with extra cost, could you explain them to me? And if it’s not much, could you tell me which of these drivers or modules I would have to take into account for this implementation and their costs?