Anyone have any experience or advice for this? I have used Advantech’s WebOP touchscreens in past projects, but they could not run PAC Display. It was really rather a clunky setup putting variables and I/O on the scratchpad and then mapping to WebOP addresses and vice versa. I’m hoping to avoid all that in future setups and just have something that can run PAC Display. I normally do not have an on-site PC, so I’m wondering if an Advantech thin-client touchscreen running Windows 10 LTSB could work. Only has 4GB of SDRAM but PAC Display is only 300MB so maybe it could work? Or do I need to bite the bullet and go with a small fanless PC and monitor? TPC-1251T(B) - 12" XGA TFT LED LCD Thin-Client Terminal with Intel® Atom™ Processor - Advantech
It looks like that one doesn’t have a hard drive, you would need to add one (and then add the operating system of choice)… the size of RAM is irrelevant to the size of PAC Display if I’m understanding correctly.
We used to run similar Windows touchscreen computers for our HMI’s but with the advent of the Epic (with OpenVPN to peek in on your code) and Groov View (browser based HMI, any OS), we’ve moved away from Windows to less expensive platforms and screen interfaces.
I just ran into a problem where a customer specified Advantech touch panel pc with Atom. It was a disaster, the pc was corrupting the files and was sooooo slow, that’s probably why.
I never use those, I use ELO touch touch screens, and instead of a 7" screen, you get a 22"-24" wide screen for the same price. Also, use a Intel NUC10i3, they come with removable mounting bracket and are plenty fast to run Pac Display. Talk to Scott at Touchwindow.com
Thanks for the advice. The Touchwindow site is great for getting an idea of options and pricing. I’m thinking of maybe going with something like this all-in-one panel PC with Windows 10 pre-loaded. I don’t need a super large screen but some light industrial water resistance and lower operating temp (this goes to-10C) would be good. Looks like plenty of RAM and hard drive space. Any idea if the i5-6200U processor is fast enough for PAC Display? TWAP-EPC-T123P 12.1" Panel PC, i5-6200U, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD, Win 10 Pro 64-bit PCAP Touch IP66 (touchwindow.com)
Thanks, I was being dumb and mixing up RAM and HD space trying to research touchscreens too fast. I have to admit a little ignorance on Epic and Groov. We standardized on the SNAP-PAC-R1 with PAC Project a while ago and haven’t really looked at trying others. But perhaps I should. These are generally very small systems with light I/O needs (around 50 points at most) and a single SNAP-PAC-R1 controller. I assumed the Groov is more for larger systems with a lot of high-density I/O.
That panel pc should work fine. One reason you get it at that price as a panel PC is the CPU is 6th generation. I should think that even a 6th gen i5 would be plenty enough for Pac Display. If you were looking at the more recent 8th-10th gen stuff, i3 is plenty fast for pac display. I have never used the TWAP screens before, but they are probably fine. Touch windows primarily sells to POS market which generally is pretty reliable stuff. You’ll like the PCAP touch, its generally very fast. Personally, I like using the NUCs because for that price, you can get an NUC10i7. That’s a 6 core processor and an i7.
Insofar as PCAP screen go, the ELO has a glass screen right to the edge, which means I use a rubber sealant/adhesive (FLEX SEAL) to essentially glue the screen directly to the inside surface of the panel door, no screws needed, and 100% waterproof. As far as the door cutout edge, if you have a laser cutting outfit available, that makes an absolute perfect edge which needs no additional trim work, otherwise I use automotive trim to finish the edge if I cut it manually.
With regard to the size project you are doing, R1 is way sufficient and if properly programmed, is a screamer. The beauty of the R1 is simplicity with all the power you need and allows even lower point counts of (down to 1 ch analog or 4 ch discreet) while at the same time is capable of loading a 16 channel rack with 32 channel modules and running those like it is idling. It can still do IIOT but not like Epic. If you find that the speed is lacking, you’re either trying to do high speed motion control, doing something wrong, or you’re trying to run 1000+ IO.
We too had previously standardized on the R1 with PAC Project for many years but migrated to the EPIC/Groov system about 3 or 4 years ago. We do smaller projects too (50-300 points), often just a single rack. It’s very cost comparable and you can get it in smaller rack sizes, it would be very much applicable to you. And the added features blow the R1 out of the water. The Groov View interface has certainly grown in development and there’s now very little it can’t do that PAC Display Basic can; that was the part that had us holding off for a year. Definitely take a look at it, likely the extra you may pay for an Epic setup (vs. R1) you’ll make up in not needing a full PC. Plus you gain features like built-in MQTT/Ignition, OpenVPN client, Port Forwarding, etc.
